tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post7298852621952014204..comments2023-07-03T14:45:02.907-06:00Comments on Colorado's SandBox Commentators: SandBox Comments: Glenwood Springs Post Independent "Adventure Park expansion plan goes before Garfield County commissioners today"SandBoxBlogshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09307086199676223693noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-16664375820347256352012-03-26T19:00:24.601-06:002012-03-26T19:00:24.601-06:00An eyesore is what it will be sticking up all of t...An eyesore is what it will be sticking up all of that metal on top o the mountain. That light tan building has always stuck out and should have been the same dark green as the landscape. Those are low height trees and scrub. Doesn't matter if it's 30' high or 60' high. How can something like this pass slick and under the wire when we can't even design a parking garage without two years of debate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-18526115835531690672012-03-26T16:03:08.501-06:002012-03-26T16:03:08.501-06:00Tx for sending over the full copy RL.
I see every...Tx for sending over the full copy RL.<br /><br />I see everything you're both saying and more. The BLM input that's only anxious over weed control when they're approving a rollercoaster that's going to run at least a 14 hour day every day on top of cave life that is a natural treasure. I still come back to the noise levels. What will they do, put gags on the screamers? Wildlife will be gone for miles around and we already put up with the screams from the swing.<br /><br />The most troubling aspect of this is that now our county planning, with a city that didn't even bother to weigh in, is now wandering from idea to concept to execution without every step in-between doing their job or tracking accountability or performance. Just like all things tourism in this town. We wander from gimmick to discussion, no money to money and fat cat advertise for a few. If anything, Steve should have been put through hoops.<br /><br />What I want to know from John Martin is why we have this many holes.hotmamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-18135308087501778612012-03-26T08:13:33.803-06:002012-03-26T08:13:33.803-06:00Going public and straight to source with a wide de...Going public and straight to source with a wide detour around politicians, crony greed and hired positions of trust who are more concerned about a time clock and paycheck than their duty is the only way.<br /><br />That and all out community involvement in local elections.hammerandnails, VP of operations smalltown7noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-32143732962816930122012-03-26T04:33:31.445-06:002012-03-26T04:33:31.445-06:00Thank you for mailing us the links, FCL. Nanny, y...Thank you for mailing us the links, FCL. Nanny, you have that problem well in hand now. We will leave comment at that. As far as the public ramifications and the (great terminology by the way) collateral damage done to us all by the lack of law enforcement and the apathy of what must be greed filled elected officials; there is only one thing to do. Keep up the pressure and keep talking. Thanks for giving the open thread of this forum for one of those outlets.<br /><br />Ben, thank you for the insight. I came to the same conclusions going over the presented plan.<br /><br />Plus, nowhere is there any consideration by planning for the engineering of the installation and the impact this type of coaster will have on the land and the caves themselves. I also have to wonder at the elevation factor and uneven ground up there. Pouring out the pad is going to have to be leveled. More concrete only makes the install that much weaker. The gravitational pull at that elevation and 60' in the air (it is 60' according to all specs and tech sheets for that exact coaster)is also much greater. There is no way that they can safely anchor the thing to withstand vibration or g-force repeatedly pounded into that unstable ground and rock. The problem goes further because nowhere in the county planning screening is there any delving or even questions asked for the tech aspects and feasibility.<br /><br />Oil and Public Safety governs amusement park rides in Colo. Right now the permit held is for a low-safety concern. That is exactly the place that anyone with concerns over this should go direct to. <br /><br />Obviously the apathetic officials we have in city and county with all things tourism would not only not give anyone the time of day; you run the risk of exposing yourself and loved ones to the wrath of social, business and personal retribution from the associations those officials insist on maintaining. It simply is not worth it. Just go direct to source is excellent advice.RLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-33543109140415256182012-03-25T14:29:23.020-06:002012-03-25T14:29:23.020-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.glenwoodsprings22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-52856861024591903572012-03-25T14:21:49.201-06:002012-03-25T14:21:49.201-06:00Division of Oil and Public Safety under State UE i...Division of Oil and Public Safety under State UE is the state agency. Federal agency is Consumer Product Safety commission. A complaint isn't against Steve personally it's against the entire problem. When the people can't depend on who they elect they have to do something. In this whole problem we've got an elected city council, an elected district attorney, an elected board of county commissioners and an elected sheriff. When that many elected bodies do not throw open the doors to full transparency and people have to live in fear just to speak out, that's beyond wrong. Shut it down until there are answers and toss them out of office and boards.Jakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-56357086717354753222012-03-24T12:21:20.416-06:002012-03-24T12:21:20.416-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.jbendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-18981623185965237002012-03-24T09:51:58.601-06:002012-03-24T09:51:58.601-06:00All they'll do is pad his existing permit like...All they'll do is pad his existing permit like they did on Schneiders illegal restaurant out in No Name. Always an easy fix when you've got a lot of crony karma. Or a lot of pit-fall depending on your ethics.<br /><br />If they were smart they would clean it all up. Spread some sunshine and add in finally cleaning up 2 Rivers and maxing it out with tourist draws. GOCO funds for outdoor rink, state of art amphitheater and more. Engineer the river and create that geothermal visitors center and kiddie whitewater kayak teaching park. Save the wetlands down there and capitalize on them to a visitors center. Set up a shuttle from the whitewater park to 2 Rivers for family needs now that has grown out of control for bodies during their events. Then build the real amusement park down in Silt. Give the Cliffhanger to Dave for some income to Silt. Think regional tourism and everybody rolling in profit and bliss.<br /><br />Will they do that?<br /><br />H no. Too much money and personal gain in cronyism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-49701266146530876302012-03-24T09:31:47.794-06:002012-03-24T09:31:47.794-06:00Like I keep saying. Round and round and all the r...Like I keep saying. Round and round and all the roads go back to the same baseline point. If we had anyone that would do their job in elected office and uphold the duty to get every fact out in the open, we wouldn't be here. It's pointless to keep hashing that over. The people do get a lot done out here by just going right to the sources of real power and enlightening their purposely muddied minds. Nobody doubts that Steve has always been a great guy. He needs to step up and clear it all up. Commissioners need to shut it down until they make sure. And the law needs to enforce the existing code now. That's always been something on my mind every time I drive by that tram parking lot. That there had to be a limit to body count the minute they leave that concrete and start heading up. What's it going to be trying to corral dozens to hundreds of bodies at the bottom while they control the numbers they're allowed at the top? A walking nightmare back and forth to the whitewater park to pass the time? Or more drugs and gang trafficking action down at Two Rivers park that puts those bodies in the line? Or maybe crossing back and forth on Hwy 6 so that traffic cops can have more to handle while the folks go to Subway? With no foresight and even less responsibility for their actions, BOCC has just put us in the round and round shuck and jive shuffle again.sumfunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-82451826761625863752012-03-24T08:42:00.153-06:002012-03-24T08:42:00.153-06:00Thank you, Nanny.
A lot has happened behind the s...Thank you, Nanny.<br /><br />A lot has happened behind the scenes on this story of Garfield County relying on surface information, not digging into Beckley's expansion like they would anyone else and then just giving a lifetime of permit-free nod to do whatever he wants to do.<br /><br />The most significant points that those of you who are upset over this and want to get the solid facts in front of the public eye or into your complaints are:<br /><br />1. His biggest issue and what Martin, Samson and Jankovsky have to worry about the most if they do not stop this expansion and force adhering to the environmental and safety impacts; is Steve's original permit. The one that he is talking about in the Lowenthal video: <br /><br />http://www.rfbrc.org/educationtraining/secretsoffunding.html <br /><br />There were probably a lot of good reasons his first bank wanted more detail. <br /><br />he permit limitations is one of them. At no point in time can there be more than 1,551 bodies on that mountain, on POW property. Pretty tough to pump out a few thousand rides an hour. Not to mention we all know he has broken those permit barriers so many times already. Without the draw of this expansion. <br /><br />2. The second major hurdle with his original permit that trumps everything up there, is that nowhere is he given the ability to put up a ride like the Cliffhanger. Nothing that large or invasive is approved. His existing coaster maxes him out on capability. Probably because anything like the Cliffhanger is going to have the huge impact and safety problems, not to mention the install problems of anchoring that many g-forces into the geological formation, on top of the caverns brings. It is ironic that there would likely not be a single cry of protest if he would do the things on his original permit only. They are mostly non-invasive and are appropriate.<br /><br />From my knowledge and background, what I see as legal liability to Garfield county is this railroad method of approving the expansion. <br /><br />They did Steve no favors with what he faces if he goes ahead. On sheer safety issues alone; no one should set foot on that coaster.<br /><br />From ethical and community standpoints; Steve is where he is at because as hammer stated: he is one of the ones standing in the middle of controversy stark naked with none of the powers that be doing their jobs and binding to their sworn duty.<br /><br />The other factor that needs to be said, as much as it pains me to do it, is where in the 'h' is code enforcement and the law? There is more failed duty here with Steve than simply Martin, Samson and Jankovsky having blind eyes. People are hypersensitive because of the unjust and unethical perceptions they have over the tourism marketing dollars and his heavily conflicted interest.<br /><br />My summary on this is that commissioners did no favors for Steve. This is of serious concern.Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-41436543246551516802012-03-24T07:59:49.275-06:002012-03-24T07:59:49.275-06:00Ok, kids.
You're back up on this one.Ok, kids.<br /><br />You're back up on this one.SandBoxBlogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09307086199676223693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-49709705149981624082012-03-21T10:51:42.681-06:002012-03-21T10:51:42.681-06:00OK, kids.
Time out.
I'm not pulling the plug...OK, kids.<br /><br />Time out.<br /><br />I'm not pulling the plug on this thread. You're just in a cool off time out. Go take a nice walk somewhere. Pour yourself a soothing but bracing cuppa of tea. Buy each other a beer and a shot and hash it all out belly up to the bar.<br /><br />This is a very hot thread and moving like lightening out there. You have a lot of good information and I appreciate your keeping it fairly clean. And that's the problem. Your information is very good and very legitimate. Give it all a chance to simmer and stew for awhile, get into the hands of people who can give you answers. Give Beckley, John Martin and Mike Samson a chance.<br /><br />just sayin.<br /><br />I'll put you back up again on this one at some point.SandBoxBlogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09307086199676223693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-79721803279443837802012-03-21T10:39:38.870-06:002012-03-21T10:39:38.870-06:00I understand the public dollars factor makes all t...I understand the public dollars factor makes all the difference in the world.<br /><br />It still reeks.<br /><br />What you just described could pretty much be a description of the congressional insider trading scandal while millions of people are hungry out here and losing jobs and their own businesses. The arrogance that shows up every single time somebody like our 3 esteemed commissioners waving their hand when we all know they're aware because one of these guys sits with them is what's bothering me more than anything else.<br /><br />By god, I want every single man or woman I trusted with my vote to just do their job. Just do it. We shouldn't even have questions like this in our town, hammer. And you know it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-39753827831556525202012-03-21T10:14:57.210-06:002012-03-21T10:14:57.210-06:00Setting up a separate entity and leasing back is a...Setting up a separate entity and leasing back is as old as time. 22 and I do it on a lot of the line item needs we have.<br /><br />The difference and the real problem here with anything public dollar tourism related is unjust enrichment. And that little teeny tiny problem of alleged credit card kiting that bought all the equipment and the means to come up with website domains and cute logos over at the marketing vendor. That itsy bitsy issue of the city being hornswoggled into "leasing" back every year under the tourism contract. Nobody can even stand up and defend themselves against that allegation because nobody will let the locked doors of this town to get broken down.<br /><br />What we have in side companies and leased back to ourselves was earned by our sweat and our sweat alone. Steve Beckley and those family, friends and associates he's talking about in his video doesn't look like he can say that. <br /><br />Inquiring minds want to know what Steve Beckley and cohorts look like. The gals are really good, as we all now from safe and small, in getting down into that stagnant water and tying up all the connecting dots. In the meantime, raise your voices and call your pick of agencies to ask your questions of.hammerandnailsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-21379184744904704062012-03-21T09:34:55.421-06:002012-03-21T09:34:55.421-06:00Can be justified as called "fantasy dollars&q...Can be justified as called "fantasy dollars", 22. But only to the 81601 community that the tourism marketing is supposed to be putting us up at least in the 1, 2, 3 million dollar a year marketing bracket like everybody around us. Not in single digit gains that really aren't gains because we're so far in the sink jar.<br /><br />Very real dollar gains to a leasing company that's been started with bottom line success because of free advertising in the big leagues that they now have the money to go out and buy equipment like this and rake in 8%, every depreciation value there is and still get leasing dollars for years after. Let me guess. Schneider's zip line on that leased equipment lease along with all their grill and restaurant equipment?<br /><br />This reeks. Post up the same double and triple dips the chamber board is doing in their annual marketing contract, 22. Then I'll feel more like just looking at the engineering of the install.<br /><br />Reeks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-72897724426698830892012-03-21T04:59:49.964-06:002012-03-21T04:59:49.964-06:00Go for sure to the engineering comments.
From the...Go for sure to the engineering comments.<br /><br />From the county submit:<br /><br />"Permitted uses shall include, but not be limited to, Gift Shop, Ropes Course, Mini-Golf<br /><br />Course, Photography Studio/Shop, Candy Shop, Shade Structures/Pavilion (6), Maze (Fort<br /><br />Maze), Bungee Trampoline, Spider Zone, Children's Climbing Center, Simulator Attraction<br /><br />(Wild West Adventure), Petting Zoo, Train Ride Attraction, Children Climbing Area (Foam<br /><br />Factory), Mechanical Bull, Canopy Tour, 4D Movie Theater, Horse Back Riding Tour,<br /><br />Banquet/Restaurant Facility, Traveling Museum Exhibits (Within Banquet Facility),<br /><br />Employee Housing, Alpine Coaster, Zip line, Bungee Jump, Giant Swing, Climbing Wall,<br /><br />Fossil Dig, Botanical Garden Butterfly Exhibit, Indoor Children's Play area, Care Takers<br /><br />Quarters, Water Storage Tanks, Nature Trails, Picnic Areas, Geode cutting, Gemstone Sluice<br /><br />Mining, Astronomy Observatory Area, Visitor Center, Souvenir Shop/Expansion, Indian<br /><br />Education Center (Teepee), Passenger Gondolas, Bus and/or Van Transportation, Employee<br /><br />Housing, Maintenance Facility, Foam Factory Children's Climbing Area and Cave Tours."<br /><br />Any current or back document on the park is all about the aesthetics coupled with the sales pitch from tourism. Nowhere, anywhere that we can find are the any engineering assessments done on how they're going to install something like the Cliffhanger. That's shifting earth up there and shale rock. What are they going to do to anchor install this thing safely enough to withstand constant g-forces over the cliff hang? The swing is a safety harnassed gravitational ride. All this other is mechanical. The current Alpine coaster is low g's and is more like a scenic ride.<br /><br />The beef Ben. One of them. Is that BOCC has waved their hand with no thought and none of the standard rules that something like this requires. Because Ken Murphy stands up and says "it benefits all of us" and everybody's eyes go ka-ching with fantasy dollar signs doesn't mean they can blind pass a "no permit" on the list I just gave you. You've got access we don't, buddy. go for it.glenwoodsprings22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-85918518251671566752012-03-21T04:40:29.904-06:002012-03-21T04:40:29.904-06:00One of the first things that jumps out at anybody ...One of the first things that jumps out at anybody who pays attention to the past when it comes to tourism marketing dollars in Glenwood Springs is how many layers of fast-speak there are in the new plan for expansion at the park. <br /><br />http://garfield-county.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=77&meta_id=5309<br /><br />There isn't anybody who really believes the shuck and jive is deliberate on Beckley's part. He's not that kind of man. But somewhere along the way that sense of entitlement and hanging with the tried and true tactics of crony right to left pocket in this town at the expense of others and the rules obviously has him blinded.<br /><br />Tx for the links and research, ladies. I've got some time to dig around in details and will do that. Right off the get-go what's blatant is that none of these agencies and comment requests are talking to each other. Same old problem we've got in every single development in Garfield county and Pitkin county. Everybody only looks at what's in front of them and the tiny little piece of the puzzle that's theirs. With none of the staff linking county to city to state to federal. With politics playing a role in all of it. I've already got a take-off list and it's growing. The agencies that need to go back to are Parks and Wildlife, CDOT and the S.O. Nowhere is there noise, vibration impact on ground, rock or wildlife. Worse, Steve's press releases and that incredible video of his own words that RL brought up don't jive in any way with his max limits of 1,551 bodies on place at one time or safety impacts on how hanging over the side of a cliff in a used roller coaster is going to be handled for any kind of emergency evac. All these comments are only looking out for their own limited focus.<br /><br />Biz as usual in land and development in Garco. Leaving the strange bedfellows of right to left pocket tracking as they relate to who gains the most from tourism marketing dollars to you gals.Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-66291614235431409902012-03-20T06:42:35.795-06:002012-03-20T06:42:35.795-06:00good to know inkie. let's see how fast Martin ...good to know inkie. let's see how fast Martin and Samson fish or cut bait. there's a lot of things that could be done to enhance the caves as an attraction that don't have the harm potential as these ideas do. i don't even really have a problem with what he wants to do as long as my questions are answered and he follows the same processes we all go through for the same cost we all go through.<br /><br />this thing is like the deal over macgregor wanting fees waived on the latest ghetto phasing. why should the folks give up the fees to somebody who could care less about the impact of all they do?<br /><br />we might even get the real answer to murphy's comment at this bocc mtg. we all benefit. question is some more than others. no problem as long as the folks money has no part in the success. if these guys don't like that then instead of dodging and staying behind the locked doors to answers then fish and cut bait to get clear of the muddy water and prove legitimacy.<br /><br />what do you want to bet that colson and stroud do nothing to follow up over the next few months before that cliffhanger gets installed? that's always the m.o. isn't it? when the newspaper you work for stays alive only because of its cronies you don't rock boats. good thing the shadow folk don't have such ties and can call on the aforementioned agencies to check it all out. never thought i would see the day that the steve beckley i know would ever let this kind of shroud cover his life and family. only thing that makes sense is that he really must be deaf and blind.<br /><br />sent from my verizon blackberryhammerandnails, vp of operations smalltown7noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-49209504988904465252012-03-20T06:11:24.304-06:002012-03-20T06:11:24.304-06:00I think what might be just as appropriate is to do...I think what might be just as appropriate is to do a little digging and see what other tourism related companies are going from right to left pocket through Iron Mountain. See if there are similar ties to cronyism as we found when we dug into poor performing contractors and vendors that somehow still always end up getting a re-up on very lucrative contracts each year through the tourism marketing vendor.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong and there is everything that is right about capitalism that benefits the good of the whole.<br /><br />The very, very real problem all of these tourism lions have is the foundation of public funds they didn't just start on but keep building on and benefit to the detriment of others every day. There is no glory in greed.<br /><br />Thank you for the link, RL. I didn't know about this talk Steve gave but do recall now someone mentioning skepticism last Christmas over what he said. Didn't dawn on me at the time that the root problem here has possibly muddied the water so much that Glenwood Springs has other off-shoot companies that have relied on that same cronyism.<br /><br />Back to the expansion question itself. It is a very poorly thought out idea that raises serious questions on impact and feasibility. I'll support turning the questions to these agencies so that those questions can be made to be answered by the powers that be.inkwars. Member of smalltown7noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-84307934496176623052012-03-20T05:41:01.345-06:002012-03-20T05:41:01.345-06:00Now that is an interesting link, RL. You'll ne...Now that is an interesting link, RL. You'll never catch me advocating that a man cannot do what a man wants to on his private land. That is a right within a Free Republic.<br /><br />But.<br /><br />When that private land enjoys the benefit of the use of public dollars for personal and private financial gain; it's dead wrong. <br /><br />Looking at the date of this talk Beckley gave to the center and running that down the timeline smalltown has on hand from 1997 forward on the path of controversy over the tourism marketing dollars and credit uses attached to those dollars; it's pretty easy to see what Steve's panic mode was in his flower pot speech to council in 2010.<br /><br />That's the complaint. nails is right. Anybody who thinks the conditions of Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park would be where they are today and moving full steam ahead with the arrogance now of blowing right by every regulation and permit process we have if the advertising dollars paid by the folks were pulled; is nuts.<br /><br />Steve has been enabled by that cronyism and that is a very wrong thing. What makes it something that is rising every day into fierce contention is that Steve is a good man who no longer looks like one because of the refusal to answer the questions into sunshine. All the questions.<br /><br />Thanks for the help with the link.<br /><br />The real focus now needs to go right into the laps of 3 commissioners and 7 city councilmen that are just letting sunshine and transparency be kept locked in the closet.<br /><br />Maybe OSHA, MSHA, CDOT and Parks and Wildlife can lend a hand with that lap dumping.glenwoodsprings22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-2465320481434196062012-03-19T21:28:00.955-06:002012-03-19T21:28:00.955-06:00I agree, 22. Someone emailed this link to me toda...I agree, 22. Someone emailed this link to me today. Very, very enlightening as to how Steve thinks when it comes to impact, feasibility and permit approvals. Go clear to the last 2 minutes of him on video to hear it.<br /><br />My question for Martin, Samson and Jankovsky is if this is the way the developer does things then exactly who it is that's looking after the rules and just overall due diligence for things like the environment surrounding his private property? Sure isn't Garco BOCC obviously.<br /><br />The whole video of Steve is enlightening. If the investers in Iron Mt. Leasing are tourism lions then real questions get raised on the interest conflicts and cronyism. These are public dollars with an obviously vested interest.<br /><br />http://www.rfbrc.org/educationtraining/secretsoffunding.htmlRLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-39088389536347156152012-03-19T21:07:02.962-06:002012-03-19T21:07:02.962-06:00No matter what questions are raised got to keep pu...No matter what questions are raised got to keep pumping out that 8x10 glossy. Keep those dollars incoming no matter what gets run over to do it. You're right, RL. MSHA, OSHA and CDOT all need to weigh in the real feasibility of this expansion. So does BLM and Parks and Wildlife.glenwoodsprings22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-5578396236899888422012-03-19T15:03:56.694-06:002012-03-19T15:03:56.694-06:00Deja vu all over again:
http://www.postindependen...Deja vu all over again:<br /><br />http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120319/VALLEYNEWS/120319882/1005&parentprofile=1074gws44noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-54222549298313813472012-03-19T12:41:09.697-06:002012-03-19T12:41:09.697-06:00OSHA and MSHA are the ones that should be made sur...OSHA and MSHA are the ones that should be made sure to be notified on this. How Steve thinks he can slap up that much anchored weight, on top of vulnerable and fragile cave life, on the edge of a canyon that has constant rock slides and shifting ground just because God made it that way is beyond an grasp of reasonable thought. We lose our wildlife, we have endangered raptors in that area and the noise alone will insure they never return to nest. And he's thinking he can pump out a few thousand rides per hour? OSHA and MSHA just might have something else to say. CDOT maybe as well. That kind of vibration is bound to increase rock slides. What a fool thing this was for Martin, Samson and Jankovsky to pass this through blind. God help us if there's ever an accident on that cliff.RLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8496498834161606140.post-89886826328362686722012-03-18T07:09:15.496-06:002012-03-18T07:09:15.496-06:00It's not prosperity when the benefit of public...It's not prosperity when the benefit of public money is a benefit being used without complete sunshine and transparency.<br /><br />It's scandal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com