Update May 26, 2012:
Read the unfortunate turn this proposal has taken and what they general public now has to say by clicking this link:
http://sandboxcommentators.blogspot.com/2012/05/sandboxblogs-glenwood-springs-post_16.html
______________________________________________
On a couple of points, what wonderful news this is!
First, with regard to the sage wisdom and keen perception of Mary Noone. For the debut on the new venture via the Aspen Daily News. The only way to give true credibility first to press coverage in our area. Well done.
Second, for the content of that news. Hooah! If Noone is part of the effort, this shift in focus for the coalition just might be the role model that finally sets a tone between 'right and left' political beliefs. Open Space really can be achieved with a happy everybody. Maybe this new group will accomplish that.
On a final commentary note, Noone has been chatted up out in avatar land, on multiple hubs for a long time as one of those Garfield County residents that folks feel they could trust. Yakked at, chatted up, jostled and sometimes near shoved, Mary Noone has been urged to dip more than a toe into local and regional politics. By taking on the topic of raising taxes in GarCo, she has just jumped right in.
Could this be the start of her political career? Stay tuned to the Aspen Daily.
(whisper...whisper...maybe she'll use the daily and danforth first in everything she does....whisper...whisper.... Mary Noone for President!....whisper...whisper...do you think she can pull along some of the other wise women?... whisper...whisper...wonder what the PI thinks about getting scooped on this one....whisper...whisper...)
Andrew Travers:
"A coalition of Garfield County residents wants to create an open space program funded by a new countywide sales tax.
The group, the Garfield Legacy Project, is aiming to place the new tax on the November ballot.
Formed in 2009 with funding from a state conservation grant, they have been gauging support for the idea and attempting to spread the word about potential benefits of an open space program.
“Our hope is to get the program put together, get it voted on, and get it passed in November,” said Mary Noone, co-chair of the Legacy Project.
They are eying an additional quarter-penny sales tax, which they estimate would produce $2.5 million in annual revenue. A sales tax may be more popular with voters than a property tax, Noone said, citing statistics that show non-Garfield County residents pay a majority of the county sales tax when they visit or are passing through.
The county commissioners would have to clear the question to go on the ballot. The Legacy Project is now polling residents on their support of the idea. They’re hoping poll results will be strong enough to sway the commissioners to put a tax question to voters.
Commissioners have expressed interest in seeing polling data on the sales tax. Noone said they plan to present results from the poll to the board this summer....." (Read more? Click title)
"Unapologetically pursuing and tracking patterns within the news others make since 2010."
22 comments:
Only thing wrong with this, Mary. You're limiting our options and not thinking big.
folks would go 1% if it's aimed at economic development for Garco with specific mandates on how they can spend it.
If .5 will generate estimated 2.4 million then 1% will give us 5 million.
If 1/3 of that was locked in to open space land that's around 1.6 million guaranteed every year. Take another 1/3 and make that devoted to land and development that is tourism sustained draws. With a promise that 1/3 of whatever is generated from those draws is pumped back into open space, parks and rec.
Remaining 1/3 for overall economic development and growth to enhance all of it.
What you do is put into manifestation what folks have been pushing for years.
We don't need gimmicks, specials and lion's taking shares way too big. What we need are sustainable draws that enhance what we naturally have to offer. We need to attract big events that repeat on a regular basis. To do that we need land, infrastructure and development. To get those, we need money. Leave the lodging tax for advertising that performs.
What you do by not constricting your question to the folks is give them a sensible option or two that they can actually see will generate money back into their lives, businesses and jobs.
Instead of locking it in to a flat .5 % sales tax that is just another tax doing one thing. Get Bolder. Get Political. Prime the Pump and Beat the Drum. Jazz it up. You can do a 100 times more going for 1% with creative thinking on how to spend it and regulate it than you can telling them you just want to protect their open land.
Not bad, though. For a first time dip in the political pool.
1% covers all the bases. You don't have to go any further than to just give us the option on the questionaire.
Every bit of tax we've got we see nothing in return. Not even what goes into public education with the way our school districts and system are run. Folks don't mind spending the money if they can see that money is making something. Mary knows what the lodging tax pitfall is in 81601. And that it's not doing what it should. That money is stuck in 4 lo and won't get moving for the good of all for a long time.
Think outside the box. 1.6 million a year (tourism infrastructure oriented) could get to a point of generating 10 times that much if we do it right. Encourage educational centers built into natural lands that are double done as nature draws and learning experiences. Visitors and heritage centers. Endless possibles all over Garco with that one. Build our own natural amphitheatre up in the gap. Use it for not just concerts but educational think tank lectures. Two Rivers park and the whole stretch of Devereaux Lane is begging for wetlands conservation and has possibles of so many tourist draws it's mind blowing. Those things can grow us big attractions ability and free us up from the gimmick cycle. The coalition getting a guarantee of the pull off those draws is win win. Easily could be big, big bucks over time for pure open space.
If this was done right and Mary's the one to pull the folks together, we could end up with preserved trails for biking, hikes, fishing, nordic ski and more.
Make it multiple choice. You're thinking too small and need to let the folks off the chain.
The other thing Mary would get done if her group would sit down and put those smart heads together and get creative on tightening this up so it's not just another tax, is breaking the glass ceiling of stalemated initiatives and showing BOCC that we're only limited by the legal jargon they put in place on these things. Go for 1%. If worded and allocated right the people would go for it in a heartbeat. At very least, give them the option during polling.
I've always like the idea of a sales tax for economic and tourism infrastructure development in the county.
Not keen at a money grab tax for still yet more open space and conservation. When you think about how many needs we have and this obsessive stand trying to grab public land into private is just a complete waste.
But, if it was a significant tax, such as the 1% and was divided up to actually create revenue instead of just buying land we all win.
There are many ways to word the proposition and make it be a cutting edge deal. Mary is a super choice to do that.
I'd go for a 1% if 2/3 was not used for open space. And instead of giving the open space group 1/3 of any tourism rev's made off the other 2/3 building permanent infrastructure, core and shell I think I'd want to see a flat guaranteed grant each year instead of nailing the folks with a big percentage hit.
There's a lot of things that could be done divvying up that remaining 2/3 of a 1% county sales tax. 1/3 to county and regional tourism development and 1/3 to economic county development. There should be an agreement on the 1/3 open space would get that they have to develop some kind of self-sustained economic draw to it. Like say, nature centers in a wetlands spot. Turn it into a bird sanctuary. We are the only area in the rockies that doesn't have back to back nature pulls like that. We've got the potential to do it all and yet we do nothing but create open space protected land with trails for hiking. It's ridiculous.
Mary needs to at least give her poll a broad scope so there are some choices. And she needs to mail them out to every household so we don't have to go find somebody to sign the thing.
Nice update on the group's progress, but in defense of the PI we did write about the Garfield Legacy Project effort back in the fall. So, not technically a "scoop."
First, welcome! It's (sincerely) very good to see local press finally stepping in to the commentator world out here. Something that rarely happened even on your own hub when still open. There are so many hubs and forums out there that are wide open to establishing online, social relationships. I'll leave you to yours with the followers of SandBoxBlogs.
Yes, the PI did do an article on GLP last November minus details of any kind on the sales tax push. (which is where followers of SandBox are most interested, not the open space concept. It's that capitalism thing they have goin on, you know.) Nice to see the Daily go with that and interesting to see Mary open the info to them.
It's also nice, in my personal view, to see the our genre of spin, which is nowhere near locked into technicality, keep the dialogue going in a censored world.
They really don't bite, the followers of SandBox.
And you never know, they might be just sayin some things of worth.
Thanks for stopping in and again, welcome.
Sure, sure. Welcome. I do like ZG's avatar better though. It's got info and a classy pic. just sayin.
How long has Mary's pet project been around now? 8 yrs or more, I think. Here's my take on the proposed garco tax.
It's about time. "If" she goes bigger and gets our real problem of having zero economic viability in tourism dealt with. We need infrastructure and real draws. Sustainability. If one side has to break bread with the other to get it and that bread is a divvy up of the pie between conservation and economic development that really is the folks, not big industry. Then so be it.
I'm actually perfect content to sit back and let the ladies just keep on running with all this. You go, girl. Keep that friction moving on communications valleywide. Get some competition going between newspapers so they're out there grabbing the real news. And Mary. What can anybody say? Everything the woman touches turns to gold. Put options on that poll and mail it out, just like jbend's sayin.
It's a winner.
As a garfield resident I think there could be value in something like this. As long as they do it for whats right for garfield county not anybody else. As far as i know we dont have anything like this here. We have public lands but were not helping our private guys. 25 cents on a hundred? That tax is not bad for this is worth it. I just dont want pitkin countys program down here! That would not work here. I too agree that we cant jsut do trails all over we have to protect our natural areas and let people get to our public lands and that can help our economy some.
I'm glad Mary is in charge of figuring it out. She is the last person who would walk away from at least trying to find common ground.
I think about all the trails we have and that's all well and good. But. We've spent millions of dollars on them and they don't bring in a dime. We can't measure heads in beds by them, there is nothing close to call that viable accounting. When I look around, I see families coming to town. If you're a family person juggling kids, pets, on vacay and trying to relax yourself are you going to suit up every single day for something extreme? Or even strenuous? No, it's just not feasible. Might as well spend the money for Aspen or Vail, hire a sitter and lay around by the pool (cool pool in summer) all day.
I think a lot about something like Two Rivers Park. A natural wetlands that needs complete reroute of all river and bank area to turn it into wetlands, geo thermal exploration/science teaching. Mini kayak training for kids. If we had a portion of a 1% county tax that was devoted to developing viable and producing revenue streams but still hold on to what makes us unique; we would have families spending their vacations here.
Between Glenwood and Carbondale there is all the room in the world for wildlife and wetlands habitat. We could partner with Parks and Wildlife, Forest Service, BLM and bring in bird species, build nature teaching visitors centers.
Head toward the west and do the same thing with geological studies.
Head up 133 and do more geothermal and wildlife.
If we did this right, that 1/3 that is devoted to tourism infrastructure could really quickly start adding up to big bucks for building more, drawing major sporting events like World Kayak.
That final 1/3 of the pie being spent for things like Silt and New Castle's economic growth needs. Enhancing our internet capabilities, even lending toward convention and arts center.
I too, don't want anything like Pitco. What is done up there in the name of conservation and the environment is unbelievable. And for the most part just land grabs. I don't think GLP is that kind of a group.
Go Mary!
Lots could be done and it's a sales tax not a property tax. The thing is we're also only limited by what the creators of the wording give. We could put a moratorium on it of say 3 to 5 yrs. Try it, see if it works. I think one of the keys is going to be getting all garco residents who will, to participate in the input of ideas. Even if there isn't time to get it on the Fall ballot. Bet they'd hold a special election spring '13 for it if fall '12 can't be had. We need recreation opportunities that stimulate tourism and local. We all have families and are downvalley budgets. Look at what the air show draws. A few years back there was some talk of a BMX world class track being built out by the west airport. BMX circuit brings thousands of riders annually and they have track as close as east I-70 over in Eagle and down in Mesa. We've got the room for major sport events if we had the infrastructure. Build those things and at the same time take and set aside for generations to come the pristine spots of land we all have raised our kids in. But make those lands suit and fit in to what we are in Garco. Could really be win win all the way around. Going to put a plug in for a permanent change to garco communications to the folks too. The reason stuff like this gets talked about out in a hub like this is because there is no access to county or city. Get with the reality of the folks busy lives and establish mail campaigns. Make sure the alert goes out that it's coming and people need to choose method of delivery. Email? text? Regular mail? Or be left alone? When there are ideas like GLP's and real polled feedback is wanted, stop relying on 3rd party like newspaper and radio. Go direct to source.
Mary's got the jazz!
Wasn't there, a couple of years back or so, a rumored $18 million in unused Garfield portions of GOCO funds sitting around drawing interest?
What if this tax thing works out somehow and the BOCC jump started the whole thing by putting that to work on some of the idea/concept? Might be generating dinero faster than we think.
Hooking up with Parks and Wildlife, BLM and Forest Service is what might give some of this enough juice to fly.
There's GOCO money and there's wildlife money. One of the most beautiful spots we have anywhere is Garfield Creek. Over the years, it's just not the same. We need an overall umbrella organization to rein in all these factions and do it right here in Garfield county. Not Pitkin or Eagle county. Do some legwork before polling final and see what Perry has to say. Stop and see Steve. Look at all the angles. Even west end with geology, there might be some help from EnCana and Shell. They have a lot to offer on energy knowledge and there really is a big part of our culture here in the county that is tied up in energy that is direct tied to the heart of the land and these vistas this Mary of yours is being interviewed on. Lots to go on.
nanny, what are the stats on this? Looks like it's moving up the left sidebar pretty fast.
Suppose I'll say welcome to the guy. Then see if shows up in real chat or never comes back. Hasn't been enough time pass yet for the PI to get to where the see the real error in ways and deeply regret closing off free speech and their complete lack of ethics in moderation of their own home hub.
Endless possibles with this and I'm glad to see it generating some talk. Now let's get some action. Daylight's burning and we need the income.
It's been a busy day. We're averaging around 460 unique page reads each day + our regular feeders and backlinked to us social views. Today spike on uniques by a significant amount. The most popular posts over the past few days have been the FBI informant done late Sat., Silverman and Beeson today, a good spike on Mary Noone's piece and a run on the news regarding Sonya.
I would say that overall, some out there are thinking this tax thing might be a decent idea to try.
lol. The PI employee doesn't sound too happy. Good for the Daily news.
Tie whatever money in this, no matter what section of the pie, to mandatory LEED certification building wherever construction applies. Better yet, if getting into USFS, BLM and Parks Wildlife then build all their structures LEED Platinum. Use local rock quarries, local architects that specialize in LEED, local builders that are Garfield county only and that are outside the good old boys club. County has the power to help force it so by being the bond and insurance holder on projects using a blanket wrap policy.
Noone and group need to take their time on this and build a template that will show how much is possible for one county to accomplish in these propositions. People aren't dead set against any tax increases they're dead set against the wasted power, language and misappropriating that leaves the bulk of the benefit to the government with no controls and benefit to the people. Better to take their time and get it right than rush through just to get on the fall ballot.
Spent some time last night wandering around GLP's website. Looks like they're sort of all over the map on what they want to do. And that could be a problem with going to voters for a sales tax. Especially since they're hooking themselves up by association to other groups like Cochran's and Ferris's.
Garfield county folks have had a complete fed up with so-called "open lands" and "conservation" groups that go after preserving lands and that's it. There's a lot of good in the concept of working land trusts. But not enough to make it up to the folks to pay for it. That kind of thing should be kept as private grants and endowments. Not as a tax on the backs of working families.
And it isn't personal looking at the co-mingle to other groups and people. But they are all a wide diverse bunch and there are definite interest conflicts.
There are so many things that could tie in to GLP's original concept of working land trusts that fall into the lines of what this thread is chatting up. Farms that could have interactive learning centers tied to harmony with organic farming in the middle of oil and gas industry. All the wildlife conservation and expansion to reach out to incorporate a viable economic stream and revenue flow is a really good concept to follow up on.
But none of it will work or take off in the minds of Garco folks if tied to the names and organizations I see on the website. People in Garfield county are savvy and have been around a long, long time. They are not Carbondale, Basalt or Aspen. They aren't social tier power brokers and don't want to be. Mostly they're fed up consumers who support it all, work hard to do it and want the land protected but useful.
We aren't Pitco, Mary. And we're not the wilderness project, Thompson Divide coalition, Aspen valley land trust or god forbid tourism markets. Be a real shame to lose an idea whose time has come just because there isn't one unique compromise for your group. Looking at what you all have done the vast majority of group names are stand alone and not coming in for being on the backs of others. The members and efforts that are real Garco feeling are the ones that will fly.
We aren't any of the groups like Cochrane or Ferris. Any attempt to try to make this be about land grabs or blocking anything that is legal use for public or industry is going to make it fail.
This county needs both and from the names anonymous is talking and I just saw on the link, it might be doomed for failure if Noone even trys.
Make it as unique and real as Garfield is, Mary. You've got the seeds of a new way of looking at it now. Time to see what your group really stands for.
Best thing that could happen to this ballot proposal is to break the mold away from the "nobody remembers when or why it became that way so we just do it blindly and same every time" language that these things always are and give the increase flexibility. No matter what is decided on to try for. Though if it's not something that's a surefire earn ability like tourism related then asking for a whole 1% is going to flop. Garco is too smart out here for that bunk. These proposals always rigid lock in exactly how it is going to be spent. I understand you have to be clear and laser on the goal but that doesn't mean the language for the goal can't be broad. Take open space and land conservancy for example. It could be anything from buying land to enhancing the heritage of the land to building an animal or fowl sanctuary. There's historic designation ability and then all the government helping hands like BLM, USFS, Parks & Wildlife. Make it be flexible so we don't end up with millions of bucks sitting in a kitty somewhere that can only be used for one thing. it's in the language not the proposal's goals. Get smart. Get bold. Break the mold. I'm telling you we could be a template for government everywhere and no tax or mill initiative will ever be written same again if do it right on this one. What a waste to have government money sitting around that's porked and tagged. We can do better.
If they stay completely away from every other land trust outfit and conservancy org. in the whole area then Mary might have success with just doing what she's talking about.
If they stay completely away and untangle themselves from the ones on their website, stay independent and go after bolder and bigger the Garfield county way, Mary will win big.
A few relevant facts and comments:
$2.3 billion dollars has been grabbed for parks and rec by being fed into GOCO by Colorado Lottery. (An old count roughly a year ago)
If 25% of that (aprx. $600 million) was given to our public education, our shortfalls would be nearly met and taxpayers less burdened. (They could then buy more goods in Garfield County and pay a 1% sales tax increase!)
If 25% more was funneled into state tourism we might be able to be competitive for something like the World Olympics. Which would generate millions of dollars more in rebound revenue and give us infrastructure we could use for generations to come to generate even more.
With roughly a billion dollars then left in Parks, Rec and Open Space the question is begged:
"Why isn't that enough for "Open Space"?"
The same principle is what these commentators are talking up.
What snobbery (and from a few mouths near criminal slander and harassment given the truth of their full situation) I have been listening to regarding this post and those commentators around town.
I have come to the realization that I really don't care for the company I have been keeping up there in the hierarchy of social set in Glenwood Springs and find the self-annointed royalty falling far short in their own ideas for revenue streams for all. Those ideas do not even come close to the caliber and viability of this discussion.
What terrific ideas you all have! I am certain Mary and her group (along with some closet others) are taking them under consideration.
Thank you so much to "Sandbox Nanny" for breaking the Glenwood Springs glass ceiling.
You have my admiration and appreciation.
Sincerely,
"Anonymous" who just let "Sandbox Nanny" know who she "really is".
Post a Comment